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#1 Lagge

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Postad 17 juli 2015 - 14:28

Här diskuteras The Empire och här i första posten kommer gällande restriktioner ligga


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#2 Jonson

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Postad 17 juli 2015 - 22:32

Hade gärna sett ett option för häxjägare att vara beridna. Fast Cav möjligen, så att hen kan joina pistoliers. Hur hade det varit att ge Grand Master möjlighet att rida på en Demigryph?

#3 joeleklund

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Postad 18 juli 2015 - 09:56

Jag skulle vilja se att general of The empire ska kunna rida på drake

sen tycker jag man borde sänka kostnaden på mortars eller öka styrkan till 3 istället för 2.

#4 buffy

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Postad 18 juli 2015 - 11:17

Tänkte börja med det som jag tycker är för bra.

 

Det är demis, riksguard, kanoner, lightspam och kanske steamtank. När det gäller demis och riksguard så räcker det nog med att höja deras kostnad. När det gäller kanoner så behöver man ändras på deras regler så de kanske ger d3+1 wound eller något. Men är osäker. Lightspam måste ordnas men vet inte hur. Steamtank är lite random och väldigt bra mot vissa arméer och inte så bra mot andra. Kanske inte behöver ändras men jag skulle nog vilje se att den inte är så random och sänkta den till t6 kanske.

 

Sedan det som är för dåligt.

 

Det är spearmen, free compay, mortar och hellstorm. Kanske kan ge spearmen +1str när de blir chargade och free company +1 srt när de flank chargar. Kanske måste göra de ett poäng dyrare då men vet inte. Om man ger mortar str3 behöver man nog inte sänka kostnaden för den eftersom de kommer vara bra mot alver mm. Om den ska ha samma regler bör man sänka kostnaden med minst 30 pts. När det gäller hellstorm så kan den ligga kvar på samma kostnad och man gör den mindre random.

 

Säkert några SC som behöver ändras med.


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#5 joeleklund

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Postad 18 juli 2015 - 17:29

Steamtank har ju T6 så :P

hellstorm tycker jag borde vara som den var i 7th

Tycker GS skulle kosta 10pts/st

Demmis med Lance borde kosta mer än de med halberders.

Och att knights med Gw borde vara biligare än knights med lance.

Mortars s3 men kosta 120 som den gör nu.

Grandmaster och general/capten of The empire på Demmis gillar jag skarpt :)

#6 PetterL

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Postad 18 juli 2015 - 20:48

Allt inf borde bli billigare, typ 1-2pts beroende av typ. De som ska sänkas med två är free company och swordmen. Kanske greatswords och hand gunners med.

Sen håller jag nog med Dynefors om allt utom reiksguard då dom inte är lika bra som alla andra val utan ligger ganska bra.

Nått som borde sänkas rejält är alla vapenuppgraderingar. Hochlands, grenade Gun, osv. Med detta kan kanske hand gunners vara kul då deras champ kan göra kul grejer.

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#7 Hoffa

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 07:16

*Notices english only rule*

 

Problems with empire currently.

 

All infantry over costed. (Perhaps some buffed rules, even with lower cost the empire infantry will not win any combats)

Flagellants extremely over costed. (Perhaps buff their rules instead of lowering cost)

 

The infantry based empire of 6:th and 7:th simply does not work with the current book due to the cost issue.

 

Mortar to poor for its points

 

Hellstorm unusable.

Pistolliers probably over costed

Outriders, over costed. Loss of 360 field of fire really broke this unit. Move or fire fast cav is a really strange unit in 8:th edition. They need a rule change to get them working again.

 

I do not really have an opinion on Empire cannons, empire are not dependent on their cannon in the same way that dwarfs are and cannons are a bit to good against monsters which means that all the nice monster models never gets used. (Perhaps a quick fix is to make cannons do less wounds against monsters. This could be balanced by a slight reduction in cost)

 

Steam tank is ok the way it is.


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#8 buffy

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 08:52

I don´t think making the infantery cheaper is the way to go. If it´s bad nobody gona take them anyway so it´s better to give them some new rules.


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#9 Hoffa

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 10:46

I also prefer buffing most infantry over lowering cost as I do not think  inf Empire should be an extreme horde army. Huge blocks of super cheap troops are for Skaven.  However flagellants really do need to cost less points. They are insanely costed. Buffing them to be worth their current cost would make them the best infantry in the book and that feels wrong. 

 

So what can we do to make state troops actually worth their current cost?


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#10 Keef

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 11:06

I would suggest changing the detachment rules to make them more powerful. I don't know exactly how but it would be nice if coordination between several infantry blocks could be used to break more powerful enemies. As it should be!

 

I have no idea how to justify it with fluff, but just throwing an idea out there: What if different empire infantry units could "stack" their weapon bonuses? If a block of halberdiers and a block of swordsmen are engaged in the same combat then ALL of them get +1S and shield bonus. Just require a rank and 5+ frontage to avoid man-darts trying to go corner-to-corner all the time!

 

If you have the skill to stack spears, halberds, shields and free company then you will surely win any combat.

 

Call it Combined Arms or something cool like that. Also, perhaps some form of shooting into combat for missile detachments could work? If in detachment range and within 8" of the enemy, they may fire at -1 to hit (with no risk to friendlies) or someting.



#11 Noxer

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 14:56

Is this ment to apply if they attack the same unit or does it apply to the entire combat? Because I could see this becoming really broken in those games where you get a huge clusterfuck in the middle (like when facing beastmen etc).

 

I believe more in giving every type of infantry a role. Spearmen as a shield vs infantry (cavalry bane ftw), halberds as the +1 strength punch, swordmen as the more expensive tank unit, and free company militia as the cheap crap unit. If you balance it good enough, you would see people bringing every sort to tournaments just to have more cards in your hand to counter enemy units.


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#12 Keef

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 17:55

Yes, it would be very powerful if you manage to get all the different kinds of troops in the same combat. However, that might not be that easy to achieve, especially against the mentioned example of BM who in my experience has like 10 chaff or semi-chaff units. 1vs1 or even 1vs2 most BM blocks will pwn state troops so it would be up to the empire player to manouvre his units into this favourable situation. I haven't given this that much thought, I just threw the idea out there to get discussion started!

 

Ofc every unit could be made into a solid choice, even if it is a specific counter to a specific problem. This would make them show up on the table. I just feel (yes, I used the word FEEL in the rules discussion=)) that detachment rules should be an important part of what makes state troops strong. Also combining different state troops in some way.



#13 Kane

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 18:33

Halberds should also be able to fight in an extra rank. A halberd is a spear with axe and hammer/spike. :P

 

Swordmen have no place in the army. They look crappy and sword has historically been a sidearm. Very seldom have entire units been made up by swordmen.  I would rather get rid of the swordmen unit and instead turn them into elite detachment units with some nasty special rules.   Like being able to negate steadfast regardless of number of spearmen, double flanking bonus, making the parent unit to re-roll hit and wound dice etc.  

 

It does not only look good but would be more historical.



#14 Hoffa

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 19:10

Well early 16:th century happens to be one of the rare occasions when there actually was unit of sword and shield around https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Rodeleros but lets not get to bogged down in history. The unit exists, people have it painted, it got to have rules in the Ninth Age.


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#15 Kane

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 19:27

Of course there has been. I was just being way too fast. But I'd rather see swordmen as a detachment unit and spear/healberds as the main units. It would look so cool on the table! :)

 

Also, I would like to see a more varied selection of knightly orders. Knights Panther have their place in the fluff together with both Reiksguard and Knights of the White wolf. :)



#16 Mikael.K

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Postad 20 juli 2015 - 20:34

Give swordsmen a 5+ parry save instead of the normal 6+. Would make them quite good at pinning opposing units in place.


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#17 Sir_Joker

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Postad 21 juli 2015 - 22:58

Some points I want to address:

*pistoliers: give them back their old rules - 2 attacks S4 armor piercing in the first round of combat (using pistol pairs in combat); cav in general should neglect steadfast if a unit of 5 models is in the flank / rear

*infantrie: changing the state troops rule is the most promising approach in my opinion. This in combination with better mudane weapon rules (spears good vs cav; helbards +1 S; HW/S on infantry 5+ parry save) should do the trick.

*greatswords could be cheaper

*flagellants should probably go back to what they were

*canons: I don't see the need to nerf them rules wise - just make them less attractive with an increase in points

*mortar should be S3 again


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#18 Kane

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Postad 22 juli 2015 - 18:06

In 40k the Imperial guard (astra militarum) have special orders their commander can issue to them. Like, move another round, shoot twice etc.  I think the ability to issue orders would be quite a fluffy Empire rule.   

 

A captain may issue an order to the unit he is with.  A unit may only receive orders once per turn.

A General of the Empire may issue up to two orders to any unit within Inspiring Presence.

A unit receiving an order must pass a Leadershiptest to execute it.

 

Orders:

BRING IT DOWN FOR SIGMARS SAKE!

- shooters re-roll to hit.

 

First rank! FIRE! Second Rank! FIRE

-shooters may shoot twice in the shooting phase, no extra modifiers apply.

 

-FORWARD FOR THE EMPEROR!

A charging unit gains the rule Devestating Charge.

 

etc etc. There would of course be needed a better thought out rule than above but you get the general idea. :)

 

edit: here is a link to a website discussing the orders. 

 

http://imperatorguid...-rules-and.html



#19 Arachnomen

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Postad 29 juli 2015 - 23:34

Giving orders would be SWEET!

I also think that the state troopers need some sort of revamp. They need to get better and one could work with the synergy within the Empire's special rules. Detatchments, counter charges, "giving orders" etc seems like the spirit of the fighting machine that is the Empire. If that could be worked out so it adds an interesting layer of tactics to the game then that would be great!

#20 Yann

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Postad 30 juli 2015 - 12:28

I think its time to scrap the detachment system as it is. Instead detachments could use universal special rules.

 

detachments could use this instead at the start of the game.

 

- vanguard

- or skirmish.

 

vanguard could help handgunners be in range.

 

skirmish could make detachments a screen.

 

both these rules would help make empire state troops more fun and less static.

 

Yann






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